Before we begin hearing the usual calls for denunciation and condemnation, let's put this "extremely" dangerous plot into perspective.
First, let's look past the minor detail of the ringleader getting stoned before carrying out his havoc on civilized society (read the comments at the TPM link - hilarious!).
Based on a scientifically based algorithm, I've compared recent terror plots and I'd say this latest one is a bit more dangerous than the Miami Seven who were not so close to bringing down the Sears Tower (according to the FBI, their plot was "more aspirational than operational") but not as threatening as the pizza-delivery guys in Jersey who were insidiously planning on attacking an entire US Army base by their lonesome selves.
Of course, all these jokers pale in comparison to the evilness (and ineptitude) embodied by the Ghettoist Terrorist in history.
WAW
3 days ago
9 comments:
Salaams -
I find these sorts of responses distressing and, I have to say, a little disgusting. It doesn't matter how close they were or weren't. You should thank Allah they WEREN'T close to doing what they wanted to do. What I am finding ironic in this case is that these are the types of Muslim brothers that normally, regular white collar people like ourselves would stay 10 feet away from in the masjid. We would disassociate ourselves from them, and apologize for them to others "We're not all like that". Now they are accused of misusing their religion to try and kill people of the Jewish faith and too many of us are quick to bring up conspiracy theories and "They were a bunch of clowns" rather than addressing the REAL problems of extremism and YES, the propensity among some Muslims in the US to try and commit acts of terror.
I was thinking that if only they had been from Philadelphia - then Muslims would take a little more seriously their ability to wreak real havoc and cause real harm to non-Muslims. :\
Just disappointing. My last post was about this same tendency in the Muslim community , and I'm always happy to see nothing is changing.
Salaam alaikum,
Actually I thought brother Haseeb's response was a good one, highlighting the anti-semitism that we know is a major problem in our communities. Despite everything else, based on their own comments they clearly hated Jews and if some want to take that as an opportunity to address that in the community then it's a good thing.
Also, although these men were troubled and might not have planned something this elaborate if not for the informant, the fact that they went so far as to actually plant bombs (although fake they didn't know that) near temples makes me think that even without the informant, one or more of them might have done something violent in the future (getting a gun, shooting someplace up, etc.)
From what I've read, my understanding is that at least one of the men were counseled at the masjid they attended, so there was an awareness that they had some issues, and the imam was an ex-convict who had experience in jails and dealing with the radicalism that is in some of these converts. It does seem like a lot of those who convert in jail in the US are susceptible to this extremism.
I agree with Umm Zaid. Masajid and the greater Muslim community should reach out to Muslims who seem troubled with something in their lives (lack of job opportunities, discrimination, bad marriage,etc) through charity and Deeni counselling, whatever can help them out. I also believe masajid should address whatever bigoted views they might hold towards others whether they be non Muslims or Muslims of different backgrounds through lectures and discussions. Masajid should serve as community centers for people to bond in and to learn about Deen from, just like they were during the time of Rasul (SAWS). Otherwise you'll have some Muslims falling through the cracks and eventually doing something criminally drastic like killing innocent people.
AA- UmmZaid
I appreciate your comment, but I just don't see how I'm supposed to believe in this exaggerated 'propensity for some US Muslims to carry out acts of terror.'...no matter what US law enforcement agencies would wish for me to believe.
We have cases of Imams who like to fondle little boys, but no one says we have a communal problem of sexual abuse.
We have cases of men who marry and divorce women like its a game of musical chairs, but no one says that Muslim men have a propensity to abuse marriage.
We have cases of men who treat their wives like punching bags, but no one says that US Muslims have a propensity for domestic violence.
So why do we make the exception when it comes to these isolated cases of extremist Muslims?
So I'm supposed to acknowledge (and resolve to address) the American Muslim problem that an insignificant percentage of Muslims are mentally unstable and prone to criminal activity and when induced/entrapped by an FBI informant are capable of committing terrorism?
Sorry, not me.
These singular cases are criminal issues. They are NOT theological issues, for which the Muslim community needs to review its teachings, purge its books of extremism, and revisit outdated concepts.
Everybody and his brother has realized that this is yet another in the long list of flimsy cases screaming entrapment paraded in front of an eager media by an FBI anti-terrorism unit that is eager to justify its budget.
But not us Muslims. We're supposed to look beyond this farce and dig deep into our collective souls and explain to the world why we Muslims love violence so much.
Indeed you are right, some things just don't change. (sigh)
AA- Safia,
Thanks for your comments. I don't agree with the notion that the Muslim community suffers from anti-semitism. Until recently, I would have agreed with you and Haseeb, but then I've had change of heart. Please read this post for more details.
It may seem like I'm arguing semantics, but I believe its critical.
"So why do we make the exception when it comes to these isolated cases of extremist Muslims?"
This should be clear, no? Because we want to prevent another attack by extremist Muslims in this country. All it takes is one large enough attack by a an extremist, and you don't have to be a terrorist mastermind to cause a lot of harm. And I would argue that there have been enough incidents that there is more of a pattern than "isolated"(I mean, is there a certain number threshold where it goes from "insignificant" to "significant"? As I said, there at least seems to be some problems with those who convert in jail. What are some solutions?). There have been enough incidents for me to think that brushing it aside does more harm than addressing it.
For example, do you think those people at that temple would consider the whole thing a "farce"? I wouldn't, if the situation were reversed and it was my masjid that was a target. If the Muslim community there said "big deal, just a bunch of pot heads" and laughed down the threat wouldn't that send the message to their neighbors that they don't care for their safety? (And I do reiterate that while this was a government op from the beginning, the men involved actually went so far as to plant what they thought were bombs by a temple. That to me shoots a lot of holes in the entrapment defense, which no jury is going to buy, btw).
I don't want our neighbors to be fearful of us or our communities. I don't want relations with other faith groups to be damaged. So these are reasons enough for me to to take these types of incidents seriously, no matter if everyone and their brother thinks the whole thing is a funny joke (which is not what everyone thinks, of course).
One other thing I'd like to add is that besides trying to reach out and prevent some vulnerable Muslims from becoming terrorists, I believe it is our job as US based Muslims to call for the US government to stop waging illegal wars in Muslim countries, stop setting up military bases wherever they can (like in the Persian Gulf area) and stop inserting CIA agents into every conceivable country. We all should know by now that the only reason someone might become prone to terrorism is for political grievances. The guys they caught recently claimed to have wanted to commit terror due to the Muslims in Afghanistan being killed. We have to make other Americans realize and more importantly the government realize that so long as the US tries to colonize the Muslim world by forcefully inserting its military footprint wherever it wants to, then it should expect some individuals to do something drastic like commit terror because they're against American foreign policy.
AA-
@Safia, "There have been enough incidents for me to think that brushing it aside does more harm than addressing it."
I'm sorry but which incidents are you referring to? I'm specifically discussing attacks (or plans thereof) on American soil, carried out by American Muslims. If you're addressing the plots that I've referenced, I continue to maintain that those are NOT reflective of the American Muslim community.
Just like the 9/11 attackers had nothing to do with American Muslims, likewise with these jokers.
"For example, do you think those people at that temple would consider the whole thing a "farce"?"
Forgive me for not being clear, but I don't think the potential for harm or chaos was a farce. Indeed these nutjobs were ready and willing to carry out criminal acts. What I'm referring to as a farce is the overblown claim by government/media that a sleeper cell of diabolical, homegrown Muslim terrorists were on the brink of carrying out untold chaos and mayhem, but we were all saved by the heroics of the FBI.
And the ensuing farce that we Muslims have a serious problem of extremism plaguing our rank and file.
These guys were a bunch of thugs. Our neighbors need to fear local gangs, child predators, and wall street bankers more than these bozos.
@RCHOUDH, good point on the need to place grievances into their proper socio-political context, but when it comes to these clowns, I don't place any credibility in their sincerity.
I'm convinced they are finding excuses (Iraq invasion, Afghan war, Palestine, etc.) to carry out their acts of rage and revenge, and sadly they've twisted the most honorable topic of Jihad in Islam to be conducive to their wayward ideas.
cmon dude new post!i look forward to them.
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