A while back Lone Leaf commented:
“If God wills that I have children, I will never ever send them to Islamic school. Ever.”
Pretty strong words.
Although I can’t talk to her motivations, I must admit that I’m not very impressed with the Muslim school alternative that we’ve created in the US over the past two decades or so.
I’ve been thinking for some time about Muslim schools in the West. Are they really worth it?
I mean really, what benefits have we gained from these fulltime schools? Have the communities running these schools done any sort of ROI (Return-on-Investment) analysis to ensure that the graduates of these schools are actually worth the immense effort? I really wish that a proper comparative analysis could be performed between graduates from these schools versus their Muslim peers attending public schools.
I bet that the findings would show that the affect of the school (excluding the affect of the home) is minimal. Too often people look at the few exemplary students attending these schools as proof of the schools success. But those students are more a product of their homes and efforts of their parents than of the full-time Islamic school.
In many communities the schools are sucking up valuable resources to operate them. I spoke to a brother in Baltimore whose Masjid is currently subsidizing the school with almost $200,000 a year, an incredible 20% of the annual budget of the Masjid! Additionally, he mentioned, there are soft costs rarely considered, such as the usage of the Masjid facilities and the lower salaries accepted by the teachers for the sake of helping the community.
And its not only financial. So much time and effort goes into running a fulltime school. What if those resources were redirected towards other more effective ventures, such as community services (such as elderly support or free clinics) or dawah or adult education?
And the target audience for these schools is such a small percentage of the overall community that it hardly seems justified. I would estimate that the 400 or so students attending the Masjid fulltime school in Baltimore are approximately 10% of the full population of Muslim youth in the community. What is being done for the remaining 90%?
I propose that we dedicate more resources to creating stronger after-school programs as well as weekend schools that target a greater percentage of our youth. I don’t think we’ll ever get 100% attendance, but surely we can get more than the measly 10% that the fulltime schools are targeting.
A Big Brother/Sister program established at all the smaller local Masjids would go a long way towards addressing the needs of the neglected majority of Muslim youth. Weekly day trips and monthly weekend camps could target thousands if done properly.
Additionally, we all know that the first and most important school for children is their home. Why not dedicate our scant resources towards helping families create a stronger Islamic environment at home. Communities with full time schools are so preoccupied with the school and all its peripheral issues that the most critical element of the community, the family, is being ignored.
We’re seeing skyrocketing rates of divorce, domestic abuse, neglected children, and poor parental skills resulting in an overall unhealthy home environment. Fulltime Islamic schools are not addressing these issues.
Imagine if hundreds of thousands of dollars were invested into weekly seminars with trained professionals giving sound Islamic counseling. How about a fulltime family counseling service? Social work within our communities is neglected and needs to be given greater import.
Other social needs include the ongoing problems for converts, sisters, and Muslims struggling with their faith. What are we doing to address their pressing needs? Instead we’re so engrossed with these unproven fulltime Islamic schools.
It seems that we’re stuck in the original mindset of the first generation of Muslims who migrated to the West. In addition to being too busy with establishing their careers to properly raise their children, they discovered that the public schools were replete with unIslamic behavior spoiling the minds and actions of their children. So they reflexively sought refuge from this great unknown by creating Muslim schools.
However, time has shown the dangers of these public schools to be secondary to the various poisons prevalent in overall society. Parents, especially those who have gone through the public school system, have learned that the minds and actions of their children are not being formed and malformed by the schools but by society at large. And this society is equally accessible in fulltime Islamic schools as it is in the public schools.
So the new paradigm shift must take us from concentrating on building Islamic schools to developing Islamic homes and Muslim families.
WAW
2 days ago
17 comments:
As revolutionary as your view here sounds at first, it does have some truth to it. Most of the kids who got 'ruined' by public school most likely didn't have such great homes either. Versus kids who turned out 'fine' islamically and morally, even after public school had a strong family backing. So are islamic schools really the prime need of our communities? I don't think so. Like you said, I think our first priority should be addressing the needs of the family, period.
Now having said that, there is a benefit to going to islamic school, regardless of what kind of society it is functioning in.
Imagine a kid who goes to public school, where evvveryone indulges in specific behaviors and its not reprimanded, for instance having a girlfriend/boyfriend that you are allowed to make out with in the hallway.
Now place the same kid in an islamic school, where while this may happen(perhaps not so openly), its always being condemned. and the kid grows up w/ this feeling of yeh there's something wrong w/ it. Additionally, this same child is more likely to come in REGULAR contact(versus weekend school and monthly trips) with kids who ARE from GOOD stable families which could be a source of great influence for it.
While yes many kids turn out fine after public school, there may be an inside erosion of aqeedah that is happening that we don't see on the outside, and the child may be protected from this to a great degree in an islamic school. For instance, I'll give my own example. I turned out 'fine' even by going to public school. I turned out to be a practicing Muslim some years later alhamdulillah. However, if I rewind back to highschool, I used to strongly support the idea that it was OK if my friends drank as long as I didn't. (not that I had any of the sort alhamdulillah) but I would say that to almost convince myself of it as well, because these were the types of concepts floating in my environment.
That's just one example. There were many other subtle views that I had to change, because really in public school, even with a strong close-knit and stable family(which alhamdulillah I was blessed to have) you still got influenced by many many other subtle things floating around.
alwaysred.wordpress.com
I have always thought this about muslim schools. The only ACTUAL benefit I see from Islamic schools is that on average kids leave knowing alot more Qur'an than an average kid who went to public school. This is an inherent benefit, but really is only useful if they are dedicated muslims. I don't see the advantage to a muslim school, except that kids are surrounded by muslims, and it might be easier to find a partner to marry, although the way our communities are here in the west, they can't get married till they are done with college or much later. So maybe even that part of it makes school much more difficult.
I wrote a long answer which disappeared when I tried to post. Anyway, long story short, I went to public school and Catholic school in my youth and each had its advantages and disadvantages, which I imagine would apply to Muslim schools as well. I'm almost totally opposed to home-schooling though, which I see as being contrary to regular socialization and civic involvement, not to mention a fast track to ghettoization.
--Dave, http://parallelsidewalk.wordpress.com
AA-
@Burgundy, welcome. You said: "there is a benefit to going to islamic school, regardless of what kind of society it is functioning in."
I definitely agree that in a perfect scenario where our resources aren't limited (human, financial, and otherwise), Muslim schools are worth it. Clearly, a Muslim school would trump a non-Muslim school for our children.
But there is a cost associated to such endeavors. My question is, are these costs worth it? especially in light of the great challenges we are facing on so many other fronts.
@Sophister, "I don't see the advantage to a muslim school, except that kids are surrounded by muslims, and it might be easier to find a partner to marry,"
Hmmm...marriage? I never really thought of elementary/middle school (as only a handful of Muslim schools offer high school) in that way.
@Dave, sorry about the lost response - due to the many times I've lost my comments, I've learned to type my reponses in Notepad and cut and paste. :-/
Yeah I went to a Jesuit high school after elementary and middle school in public. Only I didn't really see any benefit in the private school. Only a handful of the guys in my class showed any sign of spiritual devotion - in fact, most only attended to increase their chances of college admission. So maybe my high school experience isn't such a good guage.
About the home-schooling, I've heard the lack-of-socialization argument, but I've yet to see it in the handful of friends that are products of home-schooling.
And wrt ghettoization, wouldn't Muslim schools fuel that trend faster than home-schooling?
AA -
After a bad experience with kindergarten and my eldest sister, my parents decided to throw her and then all the rest of their kids into a private Christian school until the money for that ran out.
For years we were very devoted Christians and we went to church a few times a week, as a family, blah blah blah... now none of us is even practicing Christianity (I'm the religious one, the Muslim; and my brother and his live-in fiancee try to go to church once in a while.)
But I still think going to that Christian school (though it really wasn't even that good of a school) was helpful, and I would definitely consider putting my kids in an Islamic school if I were raising them here in the West. Not because I think going to an Islamic school will train them to be perfect Muslims, but just because I seem to think that in general a private school with a smaller class size and at the very least a Muslim teacher is worth it. Knowing that there are special accommodations for Ramadan and getting Eid day off is a big plus.
And maybe it's not the best for everyone, to go that route. By high school I think the quality of the education tends to diminish at the private level.
Getting any kind of spirituality or religious dedication is more from the family and home environment than the school one--you were right about that.
But I know here in Raleigh, where there is just a huge influx of population and all the schools are overcrowded, the Islamic school (thanks largely to smaller class size and maybe really good teachers too) ranks as one of the top schools in the state on those yearly progress exams.
And the kids who went there know that some of the kids come out practicing Islam, and others don't.
I probably would send my kids to one, anyway, at least for elementary school. I think it would set good habits in place as the child grows up. Past that, they're kinda gonna do what they want anyway, right?
that's a good suggest Br Naeem, as you say, a better use of community resources.
AA. Naeem, I think you're mostly right. However, what you didn't say was that in some communities (i.e. Baltimore Inner City Community) it would be suicidal to send your child to a public school. These public schools are so laced with sex, drugs, alcohol, violence, ignorance, ghetto-escence, and just plain ole stupidity that it would be irresponsible for a Muslim parent not to come up with ANY alternative, even Dave's ghettoish homeschool (completely untrue btw).
Imagine if Naeem had attended Baltimore City schools instead of ICS! I shudder to think...
Riveting article Naeem. I tended to agree with the parts u mentioned about accountability and so on. Your final statement tho ("Parents, especially those who have gone through the public school system, ... are not being formed and malformed by the schools but by society at large.") I vehemently disagree with.
Parents can keep quite a few controls on their kids outside of school, e.g. internet filters, choosing friends judiciously, controlling TV and so on. Not so in a public school. I think the exact opposite is true. For the impressionable youth, the school does form & shape the student at so many levels.
I agree Islamic schools still have a way to go towards satisfying us in their ability to operate. But the struggle IMHO is worth the effort. Some are better than others. Definitely wouldn't base all my assumptions on the school in Baltimore (probably not the gold standard in schools others
want to emulate :)
Since the mainstream option (the public school) is obviously a distasteful medium for those of us trying to practice Islam and imbue the values we hold dear, creating divergent institutions becomes almost mandatory.
Resources-wise : I think the indigenous Muslim community should continue to prosper, and fund$ should be available. The role of the home environment is definitely numero uno insofar as upbringing.
oops im getting old, i posted the below on the East vs West Blog of Naeem and not this one, sorry!
Arif said...
AA
Wow, first time I think I’ve been disappointed in a point or idea that you were making. You are a big picture person but the bigger picture you are proposing is really short sighted. We probably need another generation of kids coming out of Islamic schools to realize the benefits and cons of this process. Islamic schools are still evolving, we only really have a 5-7 years worth of good data/information. I think Burgundy captures the essence of my thinking better so I won’t go into saying it again with similar words. The alternative of public schools is not worth it at the expense of having community seminars or the other ideas presented by you. The natural tendency of a parent is they are willing to spend in the sake of the kids and allah but not allah necessarily. The dollars spent on Islamic schooling wont be there for other things if Islamic schooling goes away. Also Baltimore Islamic schools are not a good barometer of how Islamic schools are run or perceived. All Islamic schools have room for improvement but so do Public schools. Having a muslim identity is so important and most parents are working to earn a living cannot do what an Islamic school does which is instill and supplement the Islamic principles and values along with the Islamic worshipping requirements like Arabic, Salat, and other aspects of Islamic ibadah that parents and Sunday school cannot provide adequately. I look at just the simple things of little girls wearing a uniform and scarf, so now they are introduced to that an early age of what it means to be a muslimah. Segregated classrooms in the later grades, it’s a concept being adopted by public schools even in forward thinking districts. Our kids in public school are exposed to garbage like birthdays and Halloween. I guess my point is that Islamic schools actually helps develop better Islamic homes, Muslim families and an Islamic Identity that we want to see.
P.S. Home-schooling is a viable alternative in talking to many people. MrEspy can and will do a blog on homeschooling very soon im sure based on this blog so we can all learn a little bit more on that option.
WS
PPS. I still love you brother naeem!
Not sure if my point is being understood. I’m not proposing that Muslim schools be closed down. Frankly, if I were in the US right now, my kids would be going to a Muslim school. There is no alternative.
And that is my contention. We need to create an alternative – a more effective AND efficient alternative. Muslims schools have proven to be NEITHER. And those who support them have no proof to say otherwise, besides the occasional anecdotal success story.
@Amy said “the Islamic school (thanks largely to smaller class size and maybe really good teachers too) ranks as one of the top schools in the state on those yearly progress exams.”
That’s great and if our objective in creating these schools is to provide a better education than the lousy one offered in public schools, then I’m all for it. However, more often than not, the primary reason for existence is to shield the children from the vulgar public school environment, regardless of how underperforming and overbudget the Muslim school may be.
@Sahra, I agree that inner city schools aren’t merely dangerous to the souls of our children, but to their physical well-being as well. And so in those settings, creating an alternative schooling environment may be the only option. But I believe that ICS (Islamic Community School based in Baltimore city) is not the prototypical Muslim school that sucks so much out of the community. Not to sound condescending (for Naeem M. and many other dear friends attended ICS), but ICS seemed to be an embellished home-schooling operation setup in the masjid.
@Adnan, “The role of the home environment is definitely numero uno insofar as upbringing.”
So why then do you agree that we continue investing so much money on so few kids, while ignoring the majority of the children and more importantly ignoring their home environments?
“I agree Islamic schools still have a way to go towards satisfying us in their ability to operate. But the struggle IMHO is worth the effort.”
What is this struggle? After almost 20 years of seeing schools running (not 5-7 years as Arif stated), I’ve yet to understand this struggle? Is our ultimate goal to create enough Muslim schools to incorporate ALL our children? Talk about serious ghettoization! Such an ideal is not practical nor is it possible nor is it desirable.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment, if these schools could run independently without placing a burden on the larger community, allowing the community to pursue its bigger-picture goals, I would have no problem with that.
Unfortunately that isn’t the case – most schools are resource-intensive black holes that have yet to prove their worth.
I’ve yet to hear a good answer from the supporters, are the schools worth the heavy costs?
You don’t need to convince me on the importance of Muslim schools. You need to convince me why the community must invest so much for such a small sampling of Muslim children at the cost of so many other critical social services.
And Arif, your love is appreciated. Thank you bro. :-)
Oh and you need to convince me that cute little Sarah with her scarf is wearing it because of the school and not because her parents believe it’s a religious duty (once she grows up). The school facilitates such necessities (like learning Quran, Islamic etiquettes, and so on) with the foundation coming from the home. When the home is not there, the school is rarely enough to instill these values.
Im just gonna label you negative boy. 5-7 years of accurate data for Islamic schools is valid in my opinion, you can't count the first 10 years because that's a learning and growing process for the community in starting something from scratch totally. That would like making a comment about our masjids 20-25 years ago that they only offered a Sunday school and Daily Salah. But now look at how the masjids have evolved. Islamic schools im sure will continue to evolve for the better because negative people like you will give the good people the energy to prove u wrong :)
u always focus on the negative for some reason, there are just as many good kids/families as there are bad. It's not just the anecdotal success story, there are many success stories, i feel u choose to put blinders on.
I’ve yet to hear a good answer from the supporters, are the schools worth the heavy costs? (You did get good answers, you choose not to accept them)
You need to convince me why the community must invest so much for such a small sampling of Muslim children at the cost of so many other critical social services. (Muslim children/Islamic school is a critical social service and many of the other social services you are talking about is being taught to the students in islamic schools so when they become adults they'll figure out ways to help the community in other ways as well)
Arif aka Postive Boy! :)
Assalam O Alaikum,
I read your blog. I wonder what does it have to Islamic school alone? and why do we have to sacrifice Islamice schooling in order to stop the divorce rate, or violence and etc. This has nothing to do with Islamic schooling which is in fact a one of the resource to stop the wsstern culture rooting into our lives. IF we want to stop the abuse,divorce, violence, etc help the sisters help the converts and help the weak Muslim, give Dawah all the other issue which you address there are other organization and there are other academic which can be bulit and created for the specific purpose and for tht you don't need to sacrifice or shut down the Islamic schooling, or bash at the first generation of the elders that gave such a great idea. So according to my opinion your post content does not have to do with Islamic schooling. IN fact we should focus on supporting them and several other organization who are trying to help our community which we don't and let me remind you we are Muslim are the richest ethnic community in America. Yet we fall short of UK muslim, and Eupropean Muslim when it comes to charity or donation. That is the main issue.
Is the cost worth it?
Yes. The level of indoctrination is almost insurmountable in public schools. I have known DOZENS of Muslims in public school who are no longer Muslim today.
Out of the DOZENS of Muslim school graduates I know...ALL of them are still Muslim...do they sin...yes...but at LEAST they're Muslim.
As for the substantial costs associated with running these schools and also agreeing to the fact that they are for the most part, poorly supported (by the community at large) and poorly managed, one cannot ignore the fact that it's an institution that is absolutely mandatory in this land.
Which means that for now we probably need to accept their severe flaws with the hopes they can be rectified, rather than abandon the project, only to come back to it at a later time.
And let's get past the "homeschool kids lack social skills" rhetoric. Public school indoctrination supporters really need more sophisticated arguments.
Umar Lee on Schools:
http://umarlee.com/2007/10/30/the-school-dilemna-is-school-choice-worse-than-having-to-bring-a-knife-to-school/
assalam alaikum
I can't comment on Muslim schools in the US but here in the UK, I don't see the necessity of having them. We do have some exceptionaly good Muslim/Islamic schools topping the charts. Those are the properly established ones with proper qualified teachers. Also there is little difference between one of those comparin to any other school, you have Muslims only, your children may learn some Islamic manners, and they won't be taught things which contradict Islam. However, what we also have now is a trend of Islamic primary schools opening up 'backstreet' style. Old houses are converted into schools, where teachers are women with no real teaching qualifications or experience followin a home made syllabous.
Either way, in my opinion, these schools are dream come true for parents who don't have time for their children. Once sending children off to Muslim school they have a false sense of guarantee that their children won't be learning things they shouldn't be. It takes much responsibility off thier shoulders under the assumption that they are learning Islamic manners, Quran etc at school.
Muslim parents should stop being lazy and send thier children to public schools where they can gain proper social skills and the ability to interact with people of other religions and thoughts. As for teaching Islam, Islamic manners, Quran or to correct anything they may have picked up is the responsibility of parents.
I agree, they are unnecessary in the west, though there is dire need for schools in some parts of the world, where young children are deprived of any education.... if Muslims feel so strongly about school they should consider opening one where one is needed.
i think islamic schools are good for younger children and especially middle schoolers.i went to an islamic school myself from 3rd to 8th grade and now im in a public high school. its funny because i know some muslim people who went to public school all thier lives and really dont know many basics of islam and i wonder how they dont know this stuff...then i realize they have been in public school all thier lives.i guess that would also relate back to the home environment you were speaking of.luckily i was able to learn most of those basics at islamic school and thanks to my parents. or it should be the other way around,parents,then islamic school. either way,once us kids reach high school,you can only tell and force so much on us then you really have to rely on what we were taught before and trust us to know the boundries (im sure thats easier said than done for most parents,but what would i know about that,hehe).at least our environment in islamic schools would help us realize what we are doing is wrong,which is better than not realizing anything at all......but i also think islamic school is a complete waste of time after middle school.and i think homeschooling is a terrible idea as well. another solution ive seen people use is shipping thier kids to muslim countries to be taught.which can be good or bad,depending on where you send the kid.
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