We all know that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam. There is no doubting that clear injunction in Islamic law. Nonetheless, the issue of gay marriages in America (see Prop 8) is posing an interesting quandary for American Muslims.
On the one hand, do we stand against the principle of homosexuality on moral grounds?
Or do we take a political stand and support gay marriages as such a stance would prove beneficial to our community in the long run, if ever our rights were threatened in a similar manner?
Br. Sabir Ibrahim writes an interesting post where he is of the latter opinion.
"Muslims’ status as a religious minority in this country thus weighs against extending support to any endeavor that would impose the dominant society’s values as law, even in instances where those values may agree with their own."
I know how this will sting many of our long-time accepted sensibilities, but I really think many of us should give this issue more thought. Most of us simply write it off as haram and cease to ponder over it. For so many of us, being gay is a greater sin than even kufr or shirk. However, the issue is much more than that.
Consider well the points presented by the author as he concludes his article:
“In order to progress and mature as a politically relevant community, Muslims must resist one-dimensional knee-jerk reactions to issues that are actually multi-faceted in nature. A Muslim stand against campaigns to ban same-sex marriage is not a show of support for homosexuals or homosexuality. Rather, it’s a stand against the agenda of the Christian Right, a stand against the imposition of the majority’s values on minority communities that many not share them, and a strategic move aimed at building the Muslim voice in America.”
Truth be told, I found some legitimacy in his argument. The rules of the game dictate strategic political alliances that would normally be unacceptable ('politics make for strange bedfellows').
However, I must admit that I simply can't accept his basic premise is being tenable. It seems as if he's suggesting that for the benefit of the fledgling Muslim-American community and its minority rights, we must stand up for the rights of other minorities - even if it means going against our beliefs.
Hmmm. Would he suggest the same if Muslims were in the majority?
While *he* may not, many American Muslims would have no problem outrightly rejecting such a proposition in a Muslim-majority society. And so I sense a strong tinge of hypocrisy combined with a dose of weakened principles, where we may support gay marriages (going against our moral principles) only because it may prove to be politically expedient.
But I want to take this a step further in exposing us for the weak Muslims we've become.
Let's play a game, shall we?
Pretend that sometime in the hypothetical future, a trend for public nudity was being pushed with the religious right countering by calling for the government to ban such immoral displays. Would the American Muslim community support governmental intrusion on an individual's choice of clothing (or lack of) or would we side with our political conscience and support public nudity, since supporting the naked folks against state intervention dictating their clothing norms is simultaneously supportive of the Muslimah's choice of wearing the hijab? After all, if Big Brother can decide what one must cover, he can also decide what one must NOT cover, right?
Poppycock.
I propose that we ALWAYS stand up for our moral principles, regardless of the political ramifications. And with the support and assistance from Allah (swt) alone, we will collectively deal with whatever fallout may occur in the future.
This issue is bigger than gay marriages. It's about American Muslim sticking to their principles. Whether its choosing the 'lesser of two evils', taking part in interfaith dialogues, buying into home mortgages or any other concessions we may have adopted in trying to integrate, our Islamic values must always trump everything else.
It's about the defeatist attitude that has begun to exude from our numbers: "If we don't compromise in such and such a manner, we won't be able to succeed in the West."
Sorry to get all preachy on you folks, but success is from Allah (swt) alone. Victory and defeat come from Allah (swt) alone.
And if in the process of sticking to your guns, life becomes too difficult, Allah (swt) has given us guidance:
"Surely (as for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to their souls, they shall say: In what state were you? They shall say: We were weak and oppressed in the earth. They shall say: Was not Allah's earth spacious, so that you should have migrated therein? So these it is whose abode is hell, and it is an evil resort" (4:97)
Oh, and do check out Sophister's take on the same issue. He's got some nice points.
WAW
3 days ago
25 comments:
Salaamualaykum,
A good case of hijrah if I ever saw one.
:>
I personally feel Muslims should stay aloof and focus on issues that concern them.
Of course, it's always best if minorities can co-operate amongst themselves. However, we must co-operate in all that is good and just.
For instance, the situation of Muslims and Christians in India. Both these groups face a significant threat from extremist Hindu organizations. In such a situation, it is in the interest of both communities to take a common stand on minorities' rights.
And Insha'Allah this will not have gone against any of the principles of our deen.
However, supporting gay relationships, for which the punishment is stern, both in the dunya and akhirah, (think people of Lut) Muslims must abstain.
Also, how are you doing these days Naeem Bhai?
:>
I agree with the other commenter, IslamBlog, (nice blog, i just checked it out! need to add you to my blogroll)
I also read the other post you linked to, "Prop 8", Sophister's take .
Its funny, I keep confuzing myself, not being able to formulate opinions because both sides have very valid points.
I think in this case I would have to side with not supporting gay marridges, it is complete against our deen and the way Im viewing it right now is:
If we think we are going to support ourselves by supporting gays(a minority), in other words, we think by supporting a group, a sin, a very morally incorrect group that Allah has shunned, how can we possible see any gain for us?
We as muslims cannot,should not, will not, support Gays, it is wrong in terms of Islam and as Muslims we have to align ourselves to Islam not some political proposition.
Im in school, shouldnt be here. =P.
Salam
-The Muslim Kid-
Thanks for the footnote, dude!
Salaams dear brother Naeem,
Two interesting articles related to this, one by Muslim Canadian politician Itrath Syed & one by Muslim American scholar Dr. Sherman Jackson:
Equality, what it means, how it works:
http://tinyurl.com/6ypfaq
On Morality & Politics
http://tinyurl.com/5dzttv
Warmly,
Baraka
One can, of course, always admit that he does not know, and abstain. There is no compulsion to have a clear enough opinion to voice it on everything.
AA-
@islamblog, well, I'm not sure I'm making an umbrella case for hijra. Moving is not an easy task and one may exhaust all means before making that last jump - the Prophet's example is a good case in point.
"I personally feel Muslims should stay aloof"
Good point. No need to stick our nose into issues that have the potential for great harm and very little benefit in return.
"how are you doing these days Naeem Bhai?"
Short answer: Doing well, all thanks to Allah's immense blessing.
Long answer: Do you have 10 days to spare? :-)
@MuslimKid, thanks for your thoughts...now get back to school! :-)
@Baraka, can you please resend the links, since tinyurl is banned here in Saudi? The joys of living in a monarchy!
@Michelle, not sure what you're getting at...care to explain?
Integrity does not seem to be a word that is well known or honored in Islam. That is such a shame.
Can we expect people to trust in us and believe that we are good if they see us as arguing against speaking and acting with integrity?
I have to wonder why people who don't even live in the U.S. would be so deeply involved in our laws. Just as a judge is required to know and understand the law before he can pass judgement, a U.S. citizen should know the constitution and the intentions of the founding fathers before voting.
Sure:
Equality, what it means, how it works:
http://dawn.thot.net/election2004/issues61.htm
On Morality & Politics
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sherman_jackson/2007/03/on_morality_and_politics.html
Yes...by all means...turn our noses up at Gays and Lesbians wanting equal rights under the law. What has that got to do with us Muslims...we have our own issues of God sanctioned wife beating...wife collecting...and various other sexually based problems...supporting gays is just so unIslamic.
Makes me seriously want to vomit when Muslims jump so quick on the soap box...but cry the loudest when their supposed rights are breached. Mulitple marriages is against the law in America...but there are plenty of muslims that support the Muslim mans right to have more than one wife....and blatantly flout that law...claiming religious rights....so they can break laws that forbid multiple marriages in order to collect wives...but fail to support others rights to have even one...hypocrisy...plain and simple.
I think Allah has given us pretty clear guidelines.
We know there is another life after this one that we must keep in our minds. This life is not the most important thing, and sometimes we have to take a stand against something that we know to be morally wrong, even if it means our own suffering. It will be to our benefit in the next life.
As muslims, we simply cannot support something that is so obviously against our moral beliefs. Why? What for? What could possibly be the benefit of supporting this particular issue? To gain the support of homosexuals? Extremely unlikely to happen. To show that Islam is pro-gay? That's the message it will give, to non-muslims and muslims alike. Confusing, inaccurate, misleading and dangerous.
I think there should be less venomous hatred towards homosexuals within the muslim community and more understanding and communication with them. Surely this would be helpful to everyone in a much better (and halal) way!
But Allah has also encouraged us to question and discuss, so I think it's good that people are talking about this issue.
AA-
@Mom, “a U.S. citizen should know the constitution and the intentions of the founding fathers before voting.”
But why should I care what the intentions of the founding fathers were before I vote on any political issue relevant to my 21st century needs? Is not full knowledge of the issue and my personal conscience sufficient?
@CoolRed38, must we correct all the faults found within our smaller communities before we can comment on larger society?
@lleuad, “I think there should be less venomous hatred towards homosexuals within the muslim community and more understanding and communication with them. Surely this would be helpful to everyone in a much better (and halal) way!”
Very good point. As I mentioned in my post, many Muslims treat homosexuality as a greater sin than shirk. That level of homophobia can be addressed while at the same time stating our moral repugnance with the practice. As the famous saying goes: Hate the sin, not the sinner…
'But why should I care what the intentions of the founding fathers were before I vote on any political issue relevant to my 21st century needs? Is not full knowledge of the issue and my personal conscience sufficient?'
Whatever your '21st Century needs' are are trumped by the founding father's brilliance when they called for the separation of church and state in order to ensure that each and every citizen of the United States of America is entitled life, libery and the pursuit of happiness. That is EVERY one regardless of their religious beliefs. Why should one person's religious beliefs be imposed upon one who doesn't share that religion?
Mom, “Why should one person's religious beliefs be imposed upon one who doesn't share that religion?”
Thank you for your comments.
Clearly, there is an element of religion in public life in America – religious holidays are just one example. So the separation espoused by the founding fathers is not as clear cut as you present it.
Also, it’s not possible to ask the citizenry to place their religious beliefs on the backburner when considering the value of any proposed legislation. I’m not asking that my belief system be imposed on others. But if the situation arises where I’m given the choice, I will always side with that choice that is in-line with my beliefs and oppose the one that is contrary to my beliefs.
Explain to me how that is imposing my beliefs on others?
No one in this country is required to celebrate any religious holidays. If the 'state' made it a law that you must celebrate Christmas that would violate the constitutionally required separation of church and state. Would you vote to make it illegal for me to celebrate Christmas because it doesn't fall inline with your beliefs? Should I then vote to make sure that you are not allowed to celebrate Eid?
And you absolutely should vote according to your beliefs. If you didn't you would be a hypocrite. Voting against someone's right to marry whoever they want absolutely IS you voting to imposing your beliefs on others. However, the gay marriage proposal should not even have been up for a
vote as it is a purely religiously driven ban. If people were offended by people marrying out of their ethnic or racial class should that be illegalized too?
Mom,
"No one in this country is required to celebrate any religious holidays"
Yes and no. While I'm not being forced to go to church on Christmas, I am forced to delay governmental errands since all state institutions are closed. But I think I digress.
My point was that church and state are not STRICTLY separated in America. Although there is no official state religion and no single religion has *official* preference over any other, many state legislators, including the President himself, proudly claim the influence of religion in their political decisions. Where is the separation there? Sessions of Congress are opened with a prayer. The US military has a strong Christian presence. And so on. Compared to Europe, America has some of the most "Christianized politics in the western world".
Again, I feel I'm going off on a tangent. The issue is about imposing a religious will on homosexuals wishing to marry, so let's get back to that...
"However, the gay marriage proposal should not even have been up for a vote as it is a purely religiously driven ban."
We can agree here. And I would never suggest the Muslim community be the one to initiate such a process - we have more important battles to wage. But if and when such a situation arises where 'moral' legislation is up for a vote, Muslims are obliged to vote their conscience and their faith - not side with political expediency - and THAT was the gist of my post.
One more thing.
If I can be objective enough to admit that sticking to the letter of the law (regarding separation of church and state) means that Prop 8 should never have gone to vote, then you (and other supporters of gay marriage) should objectively admit that legalizing gay marriage will inevitably lead us down the path of polygamy and dare I even say incest (between consenting (sterile) adults)... right?
'It's about the defeatist attitude that has begun to exude from our numbers: "If we don't compromise in such and such a manner, we won't be able to succeed in the West."'
Now, read this oath of allegience to the United States:
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same...
See that part where they vow to support and defend the constitution? If they find that they are unable to do that because it goes against their religious beliefs then I see a problem. They were not forced to take that oath, they are free to go where they can live at peace with themselves.
Those born in the US should pledge their allegience to their country and if they don't then I don't think that they should get to vote. The voter should always have upholding the constitution as his number one priority.
Unless the moral can be proven to be 'for the greater good of all regardless of their religion' then it should not be up for a vote. If it violates the constitution, it should not be up for a vote.
Mom,
Your thoughts and comments are most welcome...
"See that part where they vow to support and defend the constitution? If they find that they are unable to do that because it goes against their religious beliefs then I see a problem....Those born in the US should pledge their allegience to their country and if they don't then I don't think that they should get to vote."
Is said allegiance to be greater than one's religious belief's? The oath you quoted makes no mention of religion. Its purely a political oath, requiring one to renounce loyalty to any foreign state.
Surely you aren't suggesting that the millions who have found a higher authority in Jesus and the Bible do not deserve to vote. Please tell me I misunderstood you.
Again, I think we agree on your basic premise - that government must not take sides on religious debates. And you agree on mine, that individuals must vote their conscience.
So remind me what we're arguing about again? :-)
'Is said allegiance to be greater than one's religious belief's? The oath you quoted makes no mention of religion'
Religion should not be an issue. if it is a religious issue that does not effect 'the common good' then it should not be up for a vote. Whether or not a gay couple are 'married' should have no relevance in your life so you should not have a say about it.
I'm not sure why polygamy should be banned. I'm sure it's about protecting someone but divorce is always an option so I'm not sure why it is illegal. But of course it isn't really enforceable if all parties are willing and not complaining.
Concensual incest? Not hurting anyone but potential children of the union possibly. is it illegal? Could they cart me off to jail if I live and share a bed with my brother?
Even though I might personally think that gays should not be married I think that I have an obligation as an American citizen to say hey, wait a minute, it is unconstitutional for me to tell these people that they don't have the right to their happiness.
What if a Muslim was running for president and the platform he was running on was to implement strict sharia and disregard the constitution? As a Muslim are you obligated to vote for him or as an American are you obligated to do everything in your power to make sure he doesn't get in office?
Mom, "What if a Muslim was running for president and the platform he was running on was to implement strict sharia and disregard the constitution?"
Interesting question.
I've written before on the problem with a top-down approach, where Muslims place more importance on the outer, overlooking the inner transformation that is so direly needed. I critiqued the failed approach of the Saudi Religious Police (Mutawwa) as well as the political solutions being tried in Malaysia and Turkey.
So no, I would never support any president trying to reform society from the top down, by 'enforcing the shariah' (what an extremely vague, fear-mongering term so often used by the media as well as poorly informed Muslims).
On the other hand, if legislation ever came up for banning alcohol or usury or pornography, I wouldn't hesitate to support it, while at the same time realizing true reform will never come about in such a convoluted manner.
As regards to the constitution, I answer to a higher authority. That doesn't mean I will struggle to undermine the constitution. I obviously adhere to the law of the land, even when I don't agree (pay taxes to support unjust wars, etc.). Its just that if the two were to ever conflict in my personal life, my choice is clear. However, since there is that beautiful thing called separation of church and state as well as civil liberties (freedom of religion being one of them), that is choice I have never had to make.
I'll give you 10 bucks if you can make sense of what I just said. :-)
"I'll give you 10 bucks if you can make sense of what I just said. :-)"
Lol! YOU OWE ME 10 BUCKS.
just kiddin. haha. i cheated, read it over a few times.
Okay so wow, this discussion is really heating up.
I dont know who to agree with..
Let me asses the situation to myself.
So as an American you should support the constitution. the constitution states that everyone deserves equal rights, thus gays should be allowed to marry, there is no Prop8 to begin..
This is conflicting with the idea of being Muslim as Islam strictly forbids homosexuality.
Now being given the choice of supporting gays, as an American you shud they have full rights, as a Muslim you can not because it is a sin.
Hmm. haha u guys have battled out the "good points".
Hmm, man lately Ive become bad at formulating opinions for myself being amazed by the opposing teams arguments..
At first, NO GAYS ARE WRONG, I'm Muslim i support the views aligned with the Quran.
But then as a Muslim i allow have to adhere to the laws of the land. this is a free country, no one is forcing Muslims to live here.
No one shud impose their religion on us, so we shouldn't impose our religion on them...but as Muslims we must not support gays...
Man this is confusing..
I'm going to have to go with my un-well thought of answer and say no gays.
I dont think we cant SUPPORT THEM, but i dont think we shud necessarily go against them ourselves because like it has been said, the Muslims right now have Way bigger problems. but like you said BrNaeem,
If there were ever a point where i would have to choose between an American belief verses an Islamic ideal, i would go with the second...
Allah knows best. haha, in that case yes Islamic, this is completely wrong and shouldn't be on the table to begin with, but then this isn't an Islamic country.
Very interesting discussion.
lets see where this continues.
Dont mind my thoughts, kinda long and a sum of everything just mentioned. :P.
(I checked my grammar, hopefully not more than a million mistakes)
-The Muslim Kid-
'However, since there is that beautiful thing called separation of church and state as well as civil liberties (freedom of religion being one of them), that is choice I have never had to make'
You don't see how the gay marriage debate combines church and state and denies civil liberties to American citizens? Shall we deny you your civil liberties next?
Hey Kid,
you said 'No one shud impose their religion on us, so we shouldn't impose our religion on them...but as Muslims we must not support gays...'
I think it's more like YOU should not BE gay. By supporting that these people be given the liberties of being recognised as next of kin for their partners does not determine whether or not they will be homosexuals. They are not going to suddenly decide to marry the 'appropriate sex' because we denied them a marriage license. They will still be gay, they will still live together, they may or may not have a family together they just will not be legally next of kin.
Now what you CAN do is be like those Christian extremeists that go and protest at funerals of gays and war dead and let your views be known in that manner. Maybe you could encourage others to not be gay that way. (don't really do that though, you'd only look stupid and people would make fun of you)
Hmm. I think that right now the underdog are the gay's thus, as not-nessasrily against gays but not in support, I do not support them.
But I wonder, if gays were allowed and the anti-gays were the underdogs...would I support them?
It seems to me, in this country of ours, truly the separation between church and state isn't clear. Under our constitution, there should be no reason that there shouldn't be gays, this shows the christian ideology in our government.. When I say christian it means that it is the Christians whom are in power who make up these policies, not that Muslims dont support that.
Hmmm.
-The Muslim Kid-
Salaams, i dont think gay marriage are islamically right at all, but i feel marriage in general is difficult to find a decent and devouted partner these days...
I have been recommended to try a muslim matrimonial site online
any other suggestions please let me know Jzk
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