My good friend Marc at his Manrilla blog mentioned in a recent post the story of a third generation American Muslim who has basically left Islam. While the grandfather remains a practicing Muslim, the parents are more or less lax in their adherence and so the college-age grandchild has taken on the predominant American attitude towards religion – indifference.
About said individual, Marc made the following interesting remarks:
“By coming and staying in America [i.e., his identity forming here] and his parents not being full-time practitioners, their religious practice tapered off to reflect their environment, where there were no secondary or tertiary enforcements to inform his religious consciousness.”
And that, folks, is one of my greatest worries in raising children in the West – that lack of ‘secondary and tertiary enforcements’ that are readily available in Muslim countries.
From the adhan heard throughout the day to the social pressures against the hard sins (drinking, fornicating, etc.) to the ease in donning Islamic clothing to the non-issue of praying in public, I feel many Western Muslims are overlooking the importance of these peripheral factors.
By themselves, I admit, they are relatively insignificant. But in the larger context of creating an Islamic persona, their significance cannot be emphasized enough. Particularly when the primary enforcements (ie. parents) are lethargic (or maybe even ineffective) in their efforts to impart an Islamic ethos to the child.
Does such apathy towards religion exist in the Muslim world? Of course. But as of yet (and it may change), it’s not socially acceptable and definitely not celebrated. An atheist or an agnostic in the Muslim world would have to stay ‘in the closet’ or suffer social ostracization. Freedom of religion be damned.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the grandchild (or even the child) of the student cited above would one day openly renounce Islam and convert to another religion.
Regardless of how un-Islamic Muslim society has become, what are the chances of that ever happening in a Muslim country?
WAW
3 days ago
17 comments:
Asalaamu alaikum.
I think it is a simplistic mistake to blame such things on living in the West. There are plenty of highly spiritual people here, plenty of us who retain our spirituality. It's a choice. People can find any number of excuses for their apathy or laziness, but the fact that they live in the West is a ridiculous one.
You ask how many people in a Muslim society would go against the grain and leave Islam? Plenty of people do. I don't think it is a virtue to keep the name while doing everything unIslamic possible, as many people do in the M.E. There is more than enough opportunity for clubbing, even if underground, for fornication, drinking, drugs, etc. I'm not saying the M.E. is itself hypocritical and that there are not values, such as you mention of hearing the adhan etc. But if someone wants to find vice there, there is certainly no shortage of it.
I have known plenty of people who were raised in the M.E. and say they were not practicing Muslims in that milieu. It is not the place that makes a Muslim, but the heart.
It is true, parents can play a significant role in this. So blame this young man's case on the parents, sure. But don't blame it on living in the West.
Its a tough situation, there is no silver bullet answer. I know good people here in the "West" and I know bad people here in the "West". I assume the same is true in other parts of the world, it may be different set of issues, it's not a great parallel im going to make but it's akin to white collar crime and blue collar crime but ultimately it's a crime so whether it's Western type sin or Eastern type of sin, ultimately it's a sin.
I actually agree with you very much,
though this situation is about someone leaving Islam, I myself can say that a sort of practicing Muslim living in the west I sure do wish that I had the things you mentioned. Especially the one about the social pressure. The other day, i forget the exact name of the blogger whom told that it is not required to wear full Niqab in Saudi Arabia and I was surprised because most women do and then I found out it was due to social pressure.
Here in the western world its the opposite we compromise with our religion verses ourselves sometimes, girls wear western clothing due to social pressure. Same with guys not keep beards all due to social pressure.
At the same time I see Aaminah's point, you cant just the blame the factors, the person has to want to be a Muslim himself in which case it will be hard but possible for him to live in western society. I think the factors more so affect people with low faith.
-The Muslim Kid-
I haven't read the other comments but here is what I have to say.
I just moved from virginia to egypt and I say yur COMPLETELY on target insh'alah. i grew up in america 'for the most' part but some things that are from islam that were imbedded inside of me were from my days of living in pakistan for a few years when i was much much younger.
The environment in america is realy anti family, anti religion. Here and i'm sure as in other muslim countries, the environment is simply more 'outwardly' muslim and people's cores are muslim.
so while they are generaly ignorant on details, they are also 'generally' more islamic in their characters. take for one the very wide spread phenemonon that ive noticed at least..i feel like in the west we're not raised to respect our parents or our husband or basicaly any authority figure.
i think when i first got married..sad to say..i dont think i was as respectful towards my husband as i should have been. in the sense that like a husband is someone who takes care of you completely so you owe him a certain level of respect..but the society tells u that yur man is there to serve YOU. period. and tht can affect your attitude and behavior even if u love and respect your spouse.
the adhan, the outwards things..these thigns do give identity to a child growing up in a muslim society. inside the home and among his peers, depending on if u surround him/her with the right peer group, will insh'alah make the child into a more mainstream strong personality.
He doesnt have to suffer from the disease of constantly being apologetic for who he is.
I'm accepted here and im MAINSTREAM. I'm respected! I'm NOT a freaking wierdo, a terrorist..'none of that...
i'm normal. nobody is going to 'stare at us' thinking wo who are those crazy weirdos and why dont they come back to where u came from.
all i hear in egypt is..WELCOME TO EGYPT *smile*.
oh yeh its me again..the last anonymous..
i also think that someone who hasnt LIVED in a muslim country..honestly CANNOT really speak on this issue.
becuase when i was in the US..and ppl mentioned to me the adhan issue..i'd be thinking 'um so ok fine..u got adhan. but u also got mass poverty, injustice, traffic issues, corruption and the list goes on and on'.
but now that the adhan reminds me to go pray rite away which is one of the best deeds..i see that simple adhan fact in a COMPLETELY NEW LIGHT.
It is so totally significant. so weighty. something we don't give weight to.
we're so used to our solitary existence without any dust in our cubicles where we pray when our palm beeps for duhur prayer and we think wow im so lucky. yes you are. but u could be luckier and live free in the muslim world. and not like a well fed dog on a leash.
however. im going to be realistic here too. coming to the muslim world isn't for everyone. it can be a fitna for some people. ultimately you have to reside where your iman rises. and Allah knows best.
I didn't expect it but I feel an iman-high in egypt that i didnt expect.im surprised. pleasantly alhamdulillah. and i havent been going to halaqas and what not. i just got here.
and truly all blessings are from Allah.
Having lived in the middle east for 22 years...20 of it as a Muslim...I would have to say...living in an "Islamic" country just to feel more Muslim is a lousy reason to do so. Most of the muslims I know here are just Muslims for show...which makes you even more depressed and disgusted with the state of Islam today...because the Quran was given to the Arabs...and they made a right cocked up mess of it...and these are the Muslims the rest of the worlds Muslim population want to emulate...I just dont get it.
As far as hearing the adhan...there are plenty of ways to hear it in the west...clocks and computer programs...even watches all have the adhan made to order...not a big deal.
And what exactly is Islamic clothing? Do you mean the thobe worn by men...the abaya or hijab worn by women...those are not Islamic clothing but Arab cultural clothing...and your not an Arab brother so why you want to dress up like one?
America isnt the cesspool people make it out to be...and the middle east isnt the garden of eden and one step from heavens gate Muslims from around the world imagine it to be...they all have their pros and cons...but being a Muslim is not where you are but who you are...and the whole world is Gods dominion...He doesnt just hang out in the middle east you know...i find it hard to believe He even makes the occasional fly by.
AA-
I think I failed to get my point across. I'm not making a judgment call on the quality of Muslims living in East vs. West. That's for a different post.
For now, I'm focusing on the chances of our progeny leaving the religion. Let me repeat my concluding question again:
Regardless of how un-Islamic or immoral or corrupt Muslim society has become, what are the chances of a child apostatizing in a Muslim country??
And what are the chances of a child doing the same in the West?
This may go against our post 9-11 sensibilities, but the truth of the matter is that a bad Muslim is better than a good non-Muslim.
So if you were to give me the choice of a grandchild who is a sinning Muslim or one who is an upright atheist, I would choose the former.
Which would you choose?
I agree with Naeem and Anonymous. While I don't live in a Muslim-majority country, the Muslim community here is large enough that we have many of the same benefits from living in those countries, the secondary and tertiary reinforcements. It is so much easier, IMO, to strive to live an Islamic life here than in the US because the positive feedback loop is reinforced. For example: halal food is plentiful and easy to come by (both for home cooking and at restaurants), both men and women are more likely to remain modest in their appearance because virtually all adult Muslims dress properly, educational resources (whether they be books, magazines, madrassahs, lectures, or some other form or media) are commonplace, masajid are plentiful if you're away from home and need to pray. And so on and so forth.
Yesterday, Milady and I went on another Eid visit, and I told her that if anything were to happen to us, that I would want her sister and our brother-in-law to take care of our child, insha'allah. Now I do have sisters with their own children, and I do love them and think they would be more than happy and willing to raise my child if something did happen to us, insha'allah, but I want my child to be raised as a Muslim as we are doing. And my wife's sister's family would be a much better place for that to happen, insha'allah, than back home in the US.
@ Aaminah: You might ask refer this post to Izzy Mo for her opinion. I suspect her answer will probably change the longer she lives outside the US, insha'allah. I do agree with Anonymous in that you can't judge this issue very well if you haven't lived outside the US in a significant Muslim community (say, a minimum of 250,000 Muslims in a big city) for at least one year.
while it is EASIER to practice Islam in a Muslim country, doesn't mean it's harder to be unIslamic.
Haha I was reading the original post and thinking ‘maaan I hope he’s not going down that whole better a bad muslim than a good non-muslim thing I often hear from uncles/grandfathers/hamza yusufs etc.’ and then I read your comment. Of course, I’m not sure what you’re calling good and bad here on either side, but is it really the truth of the matter? Really? I mean if it’s the choice of a person with empathy, moral compunction and humanity over someone without those qualities, I’ll take the former regardless of their faith. And if their faith or lack thereof is what creates those qualities maybe I have something to learn from it. I have a hard time reconciling God having a preference for bad Muslims over good people, I certainly don’t’ believe it’s what the religion teaches us but I’m probably wrong on that front. Actually, I don’t think I’m wrong on that front but good people are humble and bad Muslims are arrogant!
Also freedom of religion be damned? What’s up with that? Saudi is messing with your head maaaan! What’s there to celebrate in societies that ostracise (and that includes this one) unless you want your kids to grow up and not do things you disapprove of out of repression and fear rather than a genuine moral/ethical desire to not want to? (its fine for them to follow that reasoning as kids of course!) I think you’re missing a pretty crucial point here as well and that’s the reason apostasy is minimal in the Muslim world has a lot to do with the punishment it incurs, publicly renouncing Islam is hardly a feasible option for most and that has nothing to do with any inherent societal/communal benefits of living in the Muslim world, unless tyranny is something that ought to be striven for.
In terms of secondary and tertiary reinforcements, I’m not sure how that’s achieved in Muslim countries anyway and it’s not even because of the corrupt and immoral elements of it (though there’s that too) it’s because of where you have to send your kids to school there anyway. Unless things have changed in the last 10 years or so, private international schools are where it’s at in the Middle East, not state schools. Which is all well and good because I think I had my best schooling experience in such a school but the ‘islamic persona’ there was minimal, religious education there was present but useless and the social pressure was a lot more than I experienced in a public school in America. There was nothing cool about being a Muslim, there was everything cool about being American.
But so generally I’d say I don’t think it’s the surroundings that affect you, it’s the grounding you’re given because things are mostly the same wherever you go, though I don’t think I was given much in the way of grounding, at least certainly not in the sound way it seems you and your siblings were so I’m not sure what it was for me, but the people I know who are Muslims in name only (MINOs?!) here in the West wouldn’t really get to the point of apostasy because of their family. Everything external I suppose may or may not get them to that point but I suppose there’s still an assumed cultural importance to maintaining your religion that they wouldn’t want to overstep for the same tyrannical Saudi religious police types of reasons, only in a familial context. So for better or worse, in the West pressure is created or not created from within and if a bad Muslim is better than a good non-Muslim you’ll be fine wherever you take your kids because you can buy a Bata chappal just about anywhere you go.
i swear to God that some people just think the US and the western world is where its at-the land of the free and pure.
BS. that's all I have to say.
I lived in the US for many many years of my life - since middle school on up - and alhamdulillah my family was quite comfortable financially.
I had good schooling etc. But I also saw the corrupt/craziness of the western world.
Here in the muslim world. its called wasta. In the US, its called 'networking'..ALOT of things are like that :-) Just a difference of terminology.
I just think that inshallah coupled with the effort ofthe family/parents in raising a muslim child, the society in a muslim country can HELP you, not work against you.
I don't mean 'society' as in peers. You will have to choose right peers by choosing a good school, nd you will have to choose good families to hang out with.
I mean that when the kids go outside their home, they are MAINSTREAM. they are accepted for their way of LIFE. This is what i'm talking about!
In the US, you can do whatever you want to, but ultimately, when your kids step into that mall, they are DIFFERENT. They are a miNORITY. EVERYONE ELSE IS different. period
Br Naeem you have raised a good topic which I believe many of your readers made the assumption that you were calling for Hijra (Migration) from the West to an Islamic country which is not what you intended to convey. My take from your article was you have asked the question "How many people in a Muslim society would go against the grain and leave Islam? Which I believe is a legitimate question to ask. I believe you were not asking who have the best traffic lights or have the best labor laws, civil rights or have least corruption. If we stay with your topic, I am sure any Muslim who worked with the Muslim communities in US and Canada would come to the conclusion that more Muslims in a non Islamic country particularly in the Western like US and Canada would renounce their religion than Muslims in Muslim dominated countries such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia etc. The culture, schools, markets, work place are all based on Judean Christian beliefs. We have to be fair and give credit that in the West no one is forced to renounce his/her religion. In fact one can learn his/her religion, be with his/her Muslim community and be better off than he/she would be in a Muslim majority country. Their laws respect freedom of religion to a greater extent than any other nations that I know off.
However, when Muslims in the west take count of their stocks at the end of the day, they end up with deficit in three ways. Some would renounce their faith entirely and even propagate Christianity. Another group would abandon practicing their religion and their children and grand children would probably become a non Muslims. If you need an evidence visit the grave yards at Sioux City, Iowa; there were significant Syrian Muslims who settled there in 1923 and few of their offspring’s remain Muslim today. The third group is Muslim youth who feel marginalized economically and socially and engage in violent crimes such as gangs and radicalism.
There is no silver bullet or easy solution to these problems. If one has an option to raise and educate his/her children in an Islamic country then that is an option they ought to look at. However, most Muslims in the West have no option that I can think off to raise their children in an Islamic country for several reasons. Some are from the West to begin with and embraced Islam there and have no other home other than US, Canada etc. Some others have migrated from majority Muslim countries for economic and political reasons. But the chief reason that it is not possible to migrate in a Muslim majority country is; these countries would not give a citizenship and rights necessary to settle. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Jordan, Syria, Malaysia, Sudan, etc, would not let you settle and become a member of their societies by giving the migrant a status similar to what is available in the Western world. Therefore, one is at the mercy of visa expiration date.
I believe the best solution for the Western Muslims and for all Muslim minorities is to form a strong community in the land they find themselves in, build strong community by strengthening their Islamic schools, Islamic mosques, Entertainment venues and leasure activities for their children. They should establish reputable businesses that employ both Muslims and non Muslims that will ensure that their children have a reputable companies that they can work as an internship where they have amenities to practice their religion and some of their member communities. I believe if they pursue this line of thinking they would be able to maintain their identities and religion. Look, South African Muslims are minorities but they are held in a high steam, they posses the best businesses, best community centers, best schools and colleges and are members of the government at the same time they are a tiny minority. So my suggestion is pool your resources together and work, for sure Allah would help you in that.
Lastly, I would make an exception and that is the case in Chinese Muslims. As you might be aware, the Chinese government does not allow Muslims to practice their religion freely. A recent New York times article says “Two of Islam’s five pillars — the sacred fasting month of Ramadan and the pilgrimage to Mecca called the hajj — are also carefully controlled. Students and government workers are compelled to eat during Ramadan” Fasting is a pillar of Islam and if one cannot fast and go to school or work for the government then one is prevented to be a Muslim. The article continues with “The imam’s sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour, the rules say. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.”
To make a Hajj the article mensioned this “If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he or she has substantial savings in the bank………………One young Uighur man in Kashgar said his parents were pushing their children to get married soon so they could prove the children were financially independent, thus allowing them to qualify to go on the hajj……………….Rules posted last year on the Xinjiang government’s Web site say the applicant must be 50 to 70 years old, “love the country and obey the law.” I believe in this situation one must migrate if the opportunity presents it self and one is able to do so.
Being Muslim in a wretched place is better than abandoning your Islam in place of luxury and plenty.
Interesting post, Naeem. I can definitely see both sides on this issue. It's definitely easier to abandon your faith in a place like America where people fight fiercely to separate church and state. But most people there still practise some kind of religion, so I don't think it's fair to simply blame living in the west. I can also see CoolRed's points too, though she has much more experience living here than I do. If the parents are religious and guide the child, most of the time the child will turn out to be religious too.
AA-
Thanks for the amazing comments everyone.
I want to thank Ali for his excellent point on the Syrian Muslims who migrated to American in the 1920's. Several generations later and only a few of their progeny maintain their Islamic ties.
@Susie, "If the parents are religious and guide the child, most of the time the child will turn out to be religious too."
I'm not arguing against that fundamental truth. Hassan made a similar argument. I acknowledged the import of parents by labelling them the primary enforcements.
However, what if their affects are minimal on the Islamic upbringing of the child? That's where the secondary/tertiary influences come into play.
Nice blog
weldone
Salaams, Naeem.
I left the comments here but I'll post them again for ease:
@Naeem - Salaams.
Salaams, Naeem. I was just looking through some of the pictures from ‘Umrah I What a great time that was this summer. In sha’ Allah we’ll all meet p again in Madinah.
Thanks for reading the post. I may add a brief thought here, something between what you wrote and what sister Aaminah said.
First off, I think both of your evaluations hold validity – I will try one build a bridge between the two of them.
I can certainly appreciate your words of concern relating to your children and their identity formation as Muslims. This process is proving to be an ever increasing challenge as Muslims, having as of yet to establish a vibrant Muslim culture here in America, are running the risk of falling prey to the dominant culture. What I mean by here is not that the dominant culture is merely reduced to a Venus fly trap, but that without a solid foundation to stand on, it is only natural that Muslims will want to participate in this dominant cultural experience, even if it is to their detriment. This goes doubly so for children who have a tremendous need of belonging – a need that is not being currently met by the American Muslim community.
That being said, I do not see Saudi Arabia as a viable option. It may be working out for you, Naeem, and I pray that it is, but it is not a solution that can be implemented on a mass scale, hence sister Aaminah’s comments. I believe her rebuttal is rooted in the fact that neither is it practical nor even desirable for her to relocate herself and her family to a foreign country so that she can simply raise her child as a Muslim. Such a Herculean effort should not need be the solution for those of us here in America, Canada and so forth. Instead, we must face the challenge of what Allah has measured for us [ والذي قدر فهدى “…and by Him who has taken measurement and provided Guidance…”] by developing a pertinent, meaningful and healthy American Muslim identity.
In addition, having finally been to Saudi Arabia, I would be even more hesitant about moving there and raising a family, especially given that my future wife would be American like myself and would find the cultural climate a bit too awkward if not stagnant. As you and I spoke of in person, it is no utopia. Saudi has many ills that it is currently facing as it rushes to meet Modernity head on. I think I'll take my chances here in the States.
So we are left in a quandary [?]. America is our home and yet there are many things in American culture that are unhealthy – and I should add here, not just unhealthy for Muslims, but unhealthy for humanity! And it is here that Muslims have an opportunity to offer their neighbors some sound advice [God willing, through sound practice of the teachings from our Beloved Prophet {S}]: to provide America with a critical analysis of its ills, of its short comings. This is something for the most part that neither Christianity nor Judaism can do, as both have been “domesticated”, and can do little more than pat America on the back. But any such critique can only be effective if it’s from the inside and not a foreign enterprise [as much of it currently stands]. To further grasp this concept no need look no further to the phenomenon of white supremacy and state-sanctioned violence against blacks pre 1960's. It took, for one part, the shaming of the white dominant society, by a small minority [i.e., Blackamericans], and then the soul searching and soul changing on the part of Whiteamericans for its second part. And even though the brutalities that were carried out against Blackamericans by their own government were observed and criticized by overseas voices, it required an indigenous articulation of the problem to get results. So the only question remains is… how we gon’ do it?
Something tells me that we, as Muslims in America, are standing on a precipice. On one side stands an indigenous, dignified existence, one that would be the envy of the Muslim world, where Muslims could live out their lives in safety and security. One the other side is darkness and denigration. Having failed the task set before it, Islam can never grow and prosper and will forever be seen as a foreign, hostile enterprise, who’s core values are antithetical to American ideals. Within one to two generations, Islam will cease to be the fastest growing religion and will more than likely fade to the waste side, and can easily be shelved as an “immigrant phenomenon” or something that low-income Black folks do, much akin to how cutting grass or washing dishes is seen as appropriate Mexican labor.
So again, I ask you, “how we don’ do it?” if we’re all in Utopia Arabia or somewhere else?
And God knows best.
I also agree with others that it is simplistic and poorly judged reasoning to assume that just living in the west is detrimental to Muslim upbringing.
I have seen in many Muslim countries the kids growing up, who hear Adhan everyday, yet have no sign of practice in them. Many do not know Qur'anic verses, others do not know how to pray, some even do not know the basics of halal/haram. I am not joking, I have seen this in the likes of Egypt, Syria and Bangladesh.
Whereas I have seen strong practicing Muslims born of western resident parents, who have strictly kept their faith and practiced it.
I am not saying this is one sure fire example, but this is my approach:
1) Without practising, religious parents, with Islam fully enforced inside and outside of the house, the kids will NOT respect or pick up on the faith.
2) Friends and colleagues need to primarily consist wholly of Muslims, who are practising.
3) Engagement with Islamic activities and events. Also involvement with the local mosque, charity work and activism for change.
Post a Comment