tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post1669198458042985309..comments2023-10-31T15:54:05.715+03:00Comments on Naeem's Blog: The Absurdity of Islamic BankingNaeem:http://www.blogger.com/profile/15397380149160556040noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-42737823164268701162009-12-29T12:01:24.553+03:002009-12-29T12:01:24.553+03:00AA- Anon,
I think you misunderstood my post. I w...AA- Anon,<br /><br />I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying that buying a car through an Islamic bank is wrong. Please re-read the post.<br /><br />I was criticizing the underhanded tactic of buying the car through Islamic means and then turning around and selling it for cash. The buyer never had any intention to use the car whatsoever - it was merely a means of getting the cash.<br /><br />That in my opinion is being disingenuous and making a mockery of Islamic law.Naeem:https://www.blogger.com/profile/15397380149160556040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-55580642987552356052009-12-27T08:00:07.873+03:002009-12-27T08:00:07.873+03:00Brother Naeem
I have a frank question to ask
If I...Brother Naeem<br /><br />I have a frank question to ask<br />If Islamic Banking is absurd, what do you label Interest-based banking ?<br />Ridiculous?<br /><br />Let us put aside these absurd and ridiculous creatures, what is your alternative to the needs of millions of Muslims? Do you prefer them to ride camels and donkeys?<br />or walk?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-43897277598809786332009-04-12T17:33:00.000+03:002009-04-12T17:33:00.000+03:00Haleem brings up an interesting point...I looked i...Haleem brings up an interesting point...<BR/><BR/><BR/>I looked it up a bit, I found this on wiki..<BR/><BR/>"A number of innovative concepts and techniques were introduced in early Islamic banking, including bills of exchange, the first forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and the earliest forms of capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal),[3] cheques, promissory notes,[4] trusts (see Waqf), startup companies,[5], transactional accounts, loaning, ledgers and assignments.[6] Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced.[7][8] Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards"<BR/><BR/>From- <BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking#History_of_Islamic_banking<BR/><BR/>-The Muslim KidFikerzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812796256984782176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-31961662745862282622009-04-12T08:38:00.000+03:002009-04-12T08:38:00.000+03:00To me it just seems to be playing games with the r...To me it just seems to be playing games with the rules. I have a question - "Islamic" banking as we know it today seems to have started 100 years ago. What did Muslims do before then? What did the Khalifahs, the Ummayads, the Ottomans do?Haleemhttp://captainchaos.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-89983907766539857872009-04-12T08:28:00.000+03:002009-04-12T08:28:00.000+03:00AA- Sophister,By itself, what you describe sounds ...AA- Sophister,<BR/><BR/>By itself, what you describe sounds innocent enough and is permissible. But when the commodity is used for the purpose of getting cash for cash (as in my second example) and the steel is housed in some far-off warehouse never to be used, it becomes a farce.<BR/><BR/>But let's talk about the first example, where the commodity is bought from the bank and then sold in the open market. I have a problem with an economical system that profits from people's financial woes.<BR/><BR/>It comes down to this: a person is going into 5 year debt in order to get some cash. The bank is getting its profit (with the 5 year finance deal). The guy outside the bank (representing the open market) is getting his profit (by buying the commodity at a lower price). And you get cash that is worth a fraction of the debt you incurred.<BR/><BR/>How is that justice? Haven't the two parties taken advantage of your situation?<BR/><BR/>I would even understand if such a situation was the exception, occurring on a rare occasion. But this has become the norm. Is that acceptable?Naeem:https://www.blogger.com/profile/15397380149160556040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-65673986678498928752009-04-11T17:09:00.000+03:002009-04-11T17:09:00.000+03:00I don't see how taking steel and selling it on the...I don't see how taking steel and selling it on the open market is shady? This is how people profit. Making profit is not haram.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-22567248311457391192009-04-11T10:14:00.000+03:002009-04-11T10:14:00.000+03:00While there are some transactions that come off a ...While there are some transactions that come off a bit fishy, even your worst example still involved a real commodity. With the implosion of Western banking going on right now, partly due to nothing being tied to an honestly valued commodity or asset, it will be very interesting to see whether Islamic banks come out ahead. If they outlast or outperform Western banks during this period, that ought to quiet down those who say Islamic banking is a distinction without a difference.bingregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14354832804867825502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-43317054456522308772009-04-11T07:35:00.000+03:002009-04-11T07:35:00.000+03:00AA-@MK, My rant was specific to the tricks taking ...AA-<BR/><BR/>@MK, My rant was specific to the tricks taking place in my post. When it comes to housing, there are many Islamic alternatives, where the bank and the buyer share in the ownership in a lease-to-own deal...I haven't done the research as I'm not in the market to buy right now.<BR/><BR/>@Azad, I got some more updated info on the Saudi scholars and their opinion on the matter. I'll post it as soon as I get their fatwa translated.<BR/><BR/>From what I understand, your point is valid, but the deal cannot be consummated with the bank playing the role of the buyer. Its that loop (bank sells to you - you sell back to bank), that makes this deal very shady.<BR/><BR/>If on the other hand, you decided to take that steel and proceed to the open market and sell it, that would be akin to the SUV example of my friend.<BR/><BR/>Both are shady, IMO, but the latter one (with the steel) is even more shadier than the SUV one.Naeem:https://www.blogger.com/profile/15397380149160556040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-45242204925633893992009-04-11T04:22:00.000+03:002009-04-11T04:22:00.000+03:00AA Naeem,What's the take of Saudi scholars about i...AA Naeem,<BR/><BR/>What's the take of Saudi scholars about it?<BR/><BR/>If there is no contractual obligation of the bank to buy back the commodity and the person actually takes ownership of the commodity before selling it to anyone then shouldn't this be okay?Azadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08531550778925738910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-26017444172601924772009-04-11T02:51:00.000+03:002009-04-11T02:51:00.000+03:00Hmm. I agree. From what I had heard, Shariah banki...Hmm. I agree. From what I had heard, Shariah banking is a big scam. You see a house worth 500k, you go to them, they buy it for your and sell it to you for 600k. Makes no sense.<BR/><BR/><BR/>What is practical solutions to interest then?<BR/><BR/>ONe of my more liberal MCC teachers said, that, "In the time of the Prophet, the people used to offer them money and ask for usury on it and not the principal, leaving the person in eternal debt. That is strictly riba"<BR/><BR/>I had to differ because in that case, the modern case of Interest is okay in his views. <BR/><BR/>Btw, do Muslims in the west never buy a house? My friend asked me that, I had no response. And what about college? <BR/><BR/><BR/>-The Muslim KidFikerzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812796256984782176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8268156244556916801.post-32524678933707962872009-04-11T01:35:00.000+03:002009-04-11T01:35:00.000+03:00One of the AlMaghrib shuyukh went over a very simi...One of the AlMaghrib shuyukh went over a very similar situation and said it was forbidden. Two perfectly permissible non-riba acts can combine to form a situation of riba. He used a pen for an example, but over here it seems to be an SUV. Same difference.BrownSandokanhttp://fikrpad.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com